Alas.
April 30th, 2007
Too bad.
On a related note, if Bush vetoes the Iraq spending bill Tuesday that includes a withdrawal timetable, it will be interesting, given exactly 4 years ago on Tuesday Bush declared our mission was accomplished, and major combat operations were over.
What a long, sweet, successful ride it’s been.
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May 1st, 2007 at 6:18 am
*sigh* “one signature to run and hide”
May 1st, 2007 at 6:49 am
Agreed. With all the surging and progress and mission accomplishing we’re doing over there, just think how awesome Iraq will be in 4 or 5 more years!
We should definitely stay.
May 1st, 2007 at 9:29 pm
these things take time.
Success:
==========================
We were in Japan for 7 years
We were in Germany for 40-44 years
May 1st, 2007 at 9:41 pm
World War II and Iraq: It’s More Than Just Days That Are Different
If you feel we’re doing better now than we were even one year ago, well that’s your prerogative. But you’d be wrong. It’s apparent a military solution is not feasible in that country, as it devolves into a civil war without any power structure in place to handle the chaos. We’ve run out of reasons to be there other than “because”. Without clear objectives, we can never ‘win’ this war, so we send more and more of our troops over there to die for no reason.
I mean seriously, how do we declare “victory”? What are the conditions that must be met before we can leave?
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:50 pm
the “enemy” Sadam and his regieme was defeated, that was he primary objective.
We didn’t go there to fight dozens of splinter terrorist groups, that would be retarded. What is being dealt with now is the “war” to bring stability to a country that just lost an oppressive government and dozens of little factions are fighting for a piece of the power.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:52 pm
anyone who thinks leaving will make things better is just an isolationist idiot.
“War” and “Fighting” isn’t the answer to Iraq’s problems as there really isn’t an entity to fight. Atleast the presence of the US military creates a common target. Without our presence the country will fall into massive civil war unlesss one party / person / group (like Sadam) comes in and beats down everyone else.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:23 pm
So how do we win? When do things (even begin to) get better? What is going to change between now and this magical time when everyone is subdued? The surge? More elections? An average of 3 US soldiers die every day over there now … more people have now died in Iraq than did in September 11. Over 25,000 US soldiers have been wounded. For what?
Again, it’s been 4 years now. If I’m an isolationist because we invaded a country for no reason, set up camp there with no clear objectives past removing a benign dictator, then so be it.
To assert things will get chaotic when we leave is to imply that things are not so currently. We have a complete lack of direction on our hands over there right now, and removing Saddam’s “oppressive” government never killed over 65,000 of it’s own while in power. This is not to say Saddam was a good man - quite the contrary. However, removing him from power with no factual basis to support such a move hasn’t exactly provided for a better environment for Iraqis or their neighbors.
Moreover, if your argument is that our goal now is to create an environment for the Iraqis where the “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” mentality … like the mean football coach who makes all the team-mates hate him so much they come together … that’s downright scary.
With you being a person who leans towards libertarian viewpoints on most matters, your views surprise me.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:29 pm
But Bush asserts that is exactly why we are fighting them - so they don’t come here. Or, at least he asserts that when he’s not talking about freedom or democracy. Depends on which rhetoric is most convenient at the given moment.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Don’t think I’m defending Bush in any way shape or form or that I think we invaded for the right reasons. Bush is an asshat.
Despite rather libertarian views on most subjects I stray quite far from them when it comes to the military. I’l definately a big supporter of serious ass kickings around the globe :) (Handed out by us of course)
I’m just saying I think retreating and leaving is the worst mistake we can make if we had just packed up and left Japan after WWII and Germany those countries would have collapsed.
Look at the mess we created in Somalia by pulling out.
May 4th, 2007 at 7:07 am
I’m curious as to what you think we should do, other than just “give it time”. More troops, more money, more ‘benchmarks’?
Things have been, and still are, going backwards and getting worse overall (despite some good things we are doing - it’d be foolish to say nothing good is coming out of Iraq) every month. We are no closer to having a unified Iraqi government, pacifying the people or the civil war going on there. The Iraqi government is no closer to having their own military, viable police force, or economy.
Again, I’m just curious as to how long before you say ‘enough’.