Full Sail Revisited
February 7th, 2008
A little over a year ago, I wrote a review on Full Sail University’s Digital Media program. It was met with a minimal amount of controversy, with a few folks saying that the school was a joke, that Full Sail University doesn’t provide the necessary tools for success, and they are now in huge amounts of debt with nothing to show for it. I’ve had more time to think about things since then, and figured I’d write a follow-up about some of the pros and cons of the Full Sail University Digital Media program. Despite some of the criticism I’ve read, I’ve never really seen how this differs from any other college — a student will get out of the institution a result proportionate to what they put in. The ones who complain are the ones who are not talented, are not dedicated, or have unrealistic expectations of what any college education can do for them. Every student I went to school with that actually had the talent, the desire to learn, and put the time into the classes did great and are all in career-related fields now. Some are web designers or developers, some work in the video field, and others are involved in the video game industry. In all cases, these guys and gals showed tremendous amounts of initiative throughout the 13 months that we were at school and now have good jobs to show for it.
However, if you are an aspiring designer, videographer, or (insert creative career choice here), it should be noted that no school can teach someone to be creative — and Full Sail is certainly no exception. I think schools like SCAD are better suited to traditional artists or aspiring artists who are looking to break into the design field. Schools like that exist to spend more time and invest in your development as a designer/artist, and Full Sail exists to teach people how to harness the massive number of tools at their disposal to be successful in the design industry. That’s not to say that creative people didn’t come out of Full Sail – quite the contrary. There were a lot of amazingly talented designers that I went to school with — but I think the point is that these people were quite talented before they even walked through the doors.
Admissions
That’s the difference between Full Sail and other design schools in my mind – Full Sail will essentially let anyone with a pulse (and a decent credit line) through the door, portfolio/talent be damned. This dilutes the talent pool, harms their long term reputation, and will eventually make it difficult for them to appeal to young designers who want to get into the DM field quickly with a robust skillset. The people who graduate from Full Sail and succeed are the ones who were talented before they showed up, and I’m not sure their program is set up (or will ever have the capability) to allow up-and-coming designers that simply need refinement the time to blossom and be at their best. If they continue to have no admissions requirements, no quality control mechanisms, and continue to recycle former students as teachers (lab instructors mainly), the number of graduates who feel like they ‘got their money’s worth’ will remain quite low. With all of that said, I still feel the school is worth every penny if you are a very specific type of person — one who already has at least moderate amounts of design ability but lacks the knowledge needed to get all of that creativity out there. Full Sail’s Digital Media program definitely will empower you to take your ideas and express them in any number of fields — with careers involving motion graphics, video production, 3d animation, flash development, and web design & development being just a few. If you’re that type of person, you can handle long days (8+ hours a day of school is the rule, not the exception), and don’t mind living in Orlando, this is a school that will have you in the design world within a year and a half. And a lot of schools cannot say that.
Placement
I think the one thing that has never sat well with me was this unrealistic expectation that Full Sail was supposed to ‘place’ you in a job related to your field of study. All colleges offer some sort of job placement or career department, and I feel it’s any university’s best interest to help with job placement, as it reflects on their ability to educate their students. However, when the graduates stop taking the initiative and use the placement department as the solution rather than a tool, problems obviously will begin to show. It would seem to me that a disproportionate number of Full Sail grads have unrealistic expectations for what this department can do and should do, and when they are unable to hep them find a job in the city of their choice in the field of their choice, they blame the school for the failing. As long as Full Sail touts this program to incoming students, they will continue to experience this problem, and get undue criticism from jobless students. It should be noted, of course, that most of the people with these complaints are not Digital Media, 3D, Video Production or Game Design students. The vast majority of these complaints are from the students that make up the recording arts program. If you’re a designer, or really a non-RA student, you have little to worry about. You will easily find a job right out of school if you have a good enough skillset.
Long story made very, very short: I do not regret going to Full Sail one bit. I met some amazing folks that I learned a lot with, and I know that I would not be where I am today without that education. During those short 13 months in Orlando, I learned ten times what I learned at the Art Institute of Atlanta. I’m not sure if that’s a huge plus for Full Sail or a huge negative for AIA, but I can say that I came out much better prepared for a career dealing with digital media after my graduation from Full Sail.
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February 7th, 2008 at 6:22 am
[...] I have written another article about Full Sail more recently - be sure to check it out as [...]
February 7th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
That’s a pretty fair and realistic look at Full Sail. I definitely agree with it, because I recently accepted a position that I’m stoked about and could never have gotten without attending FS.
One sentence you added in there hit home pretty hard for me, and reminds me of something I heard from multiple instructors:
“With Full Sail you can either color by numbers and receive a $35k degree, or you can do allthe extra you can and get a $85k education. The choice is yours.”
That has to be the most down-to-earth description of Full Sail. If you apply yourself consistently and work your hardest to either learn the subjects or hone your skills in them, you’ll do fine.
Again, well done. And thanks for linking me in the “awesome” section. :D
February 7th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
That’s the thing that has always seemed silly to me - the people who complain that Full Sail (or any school) didn’t “help them find a job” are the exact ones that couldn’t find a job in a related field no matter who was helping them.
People showed up expecting a cakewalk and a ‘free job’ upon graduation. Some got neither, and a few just got the first. The ones who didn’t look at it as a free ride are the ones now doing what they love to do.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
This post made me think about the good times. For some reason I got flash backs of Mike and Red, LOTR cleaning ladies, pissing off the AWD teacher (and the incredibly gay teacher from the photoshop class), Lane’s amazingly racist Mexican jokes (that were okay because he has a Mexican wife…). Ah, I wish I could relive it.
February 8th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Man, I forgot about Lane’s racial slurs. That was hilarious/awful. I’d love to re-live most of that year as well, but I think I’d take more advantage of the ocean this time around. I still went almost weekly, but I really miss the weather and being so close to the beach.
I wonder how Red is doing these days? And dear lord, you and Matt (AWD teacher) had some amazing run ins to be sure.
February 12th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
I am looking to attend Full Sail for their film degree, and this overview has been very informative. The only gripe I have is that, are there other, possibly less expensive (The Bachelor Film degree is a hard hit at $67,000+ not including the apartment costs and the moving to Orlando all the way from Minnesota)schools out there that would give the same amount, or better yet more, of a fair effort in providing a well-paying job after graduation? If not an immediately well-paying job, at least the potential for good pay increases as time progresses? Coming from a modest-income household, I just want to know if I’ll be paying for my education twenty years after it is all said and done, when more important costs are present. To summarize, I’m into the film experience for the job after the education, and while I understand that a sound education is necessary, I need to know if the school (any school, not just Full Sail) understands the idea of my future.
February 12th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
I have heard nothing but good things about Film graduates - the facilities there are absolutely amazing. In the DM program we dabbled with video editing & shooting for a month or so, and I was nothing short of impressed with what they had to offer.
I also had a chance to see some of the work that students were able to turn out - some of it was technically sound but pretty awful in the actual creativity area.
Another school to consider is the Art Institute of (whatever city is closest to you that has one). I know a few people who have attended those schools (Atlanta is the one my friends went to) and they are doing great. Those schools tend to be a bit cheaper as well.
From a financial standpoint, I think you simply have to think about how much your earning potential will increase by attending a school like Full Sail or another video school. If you think that, over the course of your career, you’ll be able to recoup the investment (with interest!) you have made, then I’d go for it. I think you’d be able to safely say that over 20 years, your earning potential would increase by $100,000 or so.
In any event, good luck in your search!
February 17th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
I appreciate the honesty of your review, especially as some one considering going in the fall. Probably the best I’ve read. You gave pro’s and con’s and just some good insight–I can tell you actually went to Full Sail. I’m very interested in a film degree it looks like a sound program. Haven’t done a Behind the Scenes tour yet, but just from researching the site and stuff they’ve sent me I’ve honestly fell in love with the school.
Completely agree with you about the lack of creativity, I’ve seen some of the trailers for the film students grad projects and things they put on youtube. Creative wise it was deplorable but the video and sound quality were beyond excellent.
I’m aware of the long hours and know the effort you put in is exactly what you’re going to get out. An quite frankly no one is ever a 100% satisfied at any school. A lot of other reviews I find make it sound like a crime FS didn’t get them a job straight from graduation. Which is another thing I find ridiculous its no more FS job than it is your parents or your friends to start your career.
I worked at store and they were in the process of transferring a couple manager’s to different area’s. When the manager found out who was replacing him at the store he said and I quote “ah she’s a b***” Well she came to the store and we got along great after a couple months I told her what he said and wouldn’t you know the first day she worked at our store was the first time he’d ever met her. Makes me wonder how many of those reviews are by actual students–who worked hard.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Rocio:
Glad my write-up was helpful to you! I think that if a student expects a school to find them a job right out of the gate — not HELP, but FIND — they’re doomed to fail from the start. No school should promise this, nor should any student expect such a thing.
As I have already said above, you will get out of Full Sail what you put in. It’s not for everyone, but the people who devoted themselves to getting everything they could out of the program turned out to be top-notch at what they do. The ones who didn’t are doing god-knows-what now.
Just like at any other school.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
I’m glad I found your site. I found an ad for Full Sail in Macworld magazinge about a year ago, and have been really pumped about my eventual attendance. It wasn’t until recently though, that I found really negative reviews about Full Sail. I concur that they were mostly Recording Arts students, but they were complaing about the content of the course, the quality of the instruction, and the character of the emloyees, not “They said I’d get a job when I was done.”
Pushing all that aside what I want to know is this: Will Full Sail deliver if I throw everything I am into the education? I don’t want to be disapointed. I am a hard and studious worker; I will give it all that I’ve got. I need to know if I spend my hard earned money, will I face neglect? I know that Full Sail is tough, but I’m not expecting a “cakewalk.” I want to know that the education, people, and gear are worth $72,000. I’m not living in dream world, I just want to know that if I pour myself into this, that Full Sail will give it’s worth in what it takes.
I’ve spent the past year and a half in an all Mac design lab (Final Cut Pro, Photohop, and GoLive). I plan to use Full Sail to expound on the knowledge I already have by taking the Digital Arts & Design course (previously Digital Media). Upon graduation and finding a job, I want to take their Entertainment Business online. This is my plan, please advise! Thank you! Oh, great page layout by the way it’s very clean!
February 18th, 2008 at 11:02 am
I never had an issue with any of the instructors, or 99% of the material presented. I felt like the people who were teaching these classes were extremely knowledgeable about the subjects they were talking about, and were always willing to give you any extra help. If you pour yourself into the classes and stay in extra labs, ask more questions, and spend more time on your projects, you will never be neglected by your instructor or lab assistants. They’ve always been nothing but helpful and willing to offer creative input as well.
If you have the creative instinct and the readiness to spend a huge portion of a year at Full Sail, I think you’ll be fine. Like any place, the nay sayers will get most of the attention, but I know a few dozen highly successful grads from there.
Glad you like the site! I just launched it recently so I’m still quite happy with it.
February 20th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Hey, it’s me again. I had a couple of more questions for you. If you choose to email me instead of taking up space on your blog, that works for me.
I’ve been doing some more research and continue to find posts by people who advise against Full Sail. I’ll be honest, I’ve really lost faith in the school. I know there are a lot of nay sayers who flunked out, but I’ve read some convincing stuff. This site actually describes most of the stuff I’ve heard about (such as http://www.geocities.com/fullsailexposed/tfse-ed3.html). So, I’m going to sum up what people are saying, and I am asking you to debunk the lies and affirm the truth
The following is what I read in other reviews of Full Sail:
The school hires graduates as lab instructors right after graduation. The text books aren’t books, they are Xeroxed copies written by the directors and are not up to date. The hardware is not “top of the line” like the school claims. I understand using Power Mac G5s, but I’ve read that when the hardware is bad (discolored monitors, etc.), it is not replaced. I know this is a 24 hour school, but I’ve heard people tell of being up 32 hours straight, with a midterm the last several hours . I can’t physically do this AND retain what I’m taught (or be expected to remember it). It is my understanding that their classes are non-transferable, though according to Wikipedia it is because they receive their accreditation nationally, and traditional 2 and 4 year schools can only receive credits from colleges with regional accreditation. Does the president, Gary Jones, really have a desk made out of airplane parts (this sounds too far out to believe)?
I really appreciate your time in answering. College is a daunting decision, and I need all the help I can get. Thank you.
February 20th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Let’s see if I can help:
Sadly, some of the instructors in the lab are former students. I always thought that was kind of hokey too, but honestly I never met a lab instructor who didn’t know his or her stuff except for the ones who were actually lab assistants from UCF. We had a few Central Florida folks as our labbies during our Intro to Web Design class, and they knew didn’t even know the difference between divs and classes. Is this representative of UCF or Full as a whole? Not at all. But it should be noted that we did have some bad lab techs, and UCF did produce them.
Most of the ‘textbooks’ were just manuals and books — things like “The 3D Studio MAX Bible’ (those yellow books you see in bookstores) and things along those lines. Considering how fast paced the classes are, there really isn’t time for textbooks in the truest sense, so I assume that’s why they made the decision they did.
The hardware, at least when I went there, was basically top of the line. I have no idea if they’ve stayed up-to-date since I left (I graduated in 2005). At the time, new G5s and 20″ cinema displays were the norm. If they’re still using the same hardware for the design folks after 3 years however, that could be a problem.
I’m not sure about the president’s desk. I’ve never met him actually.
Finally, I’m not sure which credits would and would not transfer from Full Sail. I’m sure that it has more to do with the fact that the class curriculum is so unique that transferring them to another institution would be quite difficult.
I think you’d be quite happy at Full Sail, but you are doing the right thing by researching the pros and the cons.
February 21st, 2008 at 9:10 am
Daniel,
Thanks for this review, it’s very helpful.
I was wondering if any of you would happen to know about the Show Production & Touring Degree? I know it’s kind of a odd field to begin with but next to film it’s what I’m really interested in. Also have you heard anything about the Music Business Degree?
February 21st, 2008 at 5:27 pm
The only thing I know about Show Production is anecdotal. I have read and have been told that they made the most on average upon graduation. Beyond that, I don’t know a whole heck of a lot about it.
As far as the Music Business Degree, I honestly wouldn’t bother. Upon graduation, I can’t imagine your student loan payments being much less than $600 or more a month if you were to take on that second degree. That’s almost 10k a year in loans even *if* that’s what you have to pay (I would assume they would be more). I’m not sure it would help you get a job paying 10k more than you would without the degree.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Hi Daniel,
First off, thanks for sharing your wisdom on Full Sail. I’m currently a Pre-Film, yes pre-film, major at Arizona State University. I have a few issues with ASU which is why I was looking into Full Sail. Some of these issues include the fact that I can not seem to find anyone, faculty or staff, that can answer any of my questions. I am not “allowed” to touch any real equipment because I am only pre-film but yet I have to make a 10 minute short that not only has to show my creativity, which is no problem, but also has to be excellent quality. Over 100 students apply each semester and only about 25 are accepted, you only have two opportunities to be accepted. I’m 27 years old, married with a two year old son, I don’t have time to waste. I’ve emailed and called the Dean of the film program for answers and still have not heard from him. I had theater majors teaching my film production class last semester because my Professor was busy in production for an indie film. Anyways, I’m sorry for going on and on about ASU, it sort of leads to my questions about Full Sail. I received their catalog and was certainly surprised by their tuition. Do you by any chance know if fin aid covers these costs or do you need private loans therefore good credit. Florida is a huge leap from Arizona but if the school is going to teach me what I need to succeed than to me its worth it. I’m also concerned about the hours involved because I have a 2 year old. I don’t mind moving to Florida because I want the best education possible and my mom lives in Sarasota so she would be able to see us more than once or twice a year. But, my husband hates Florida for reasons I think he doesn’t even know and I don’t want to tick him off. I guess I’m just not sure what to do anymore. My point, I guess, is the money issues and time commitment.
Side note- I had read this blog where everyone was trashing Full Sail and someone said that they had read that Steven Spielberg recommending Valencia Community College so he was going to go there instead. Funny thing about that is I have heard from multiple people including one of my Film Professors that Spielberg puts a lot of money into the film program at Scottsdale Community College, but yet couldn’t find anything solid to prove this.
I will greatly appreciate any information and advice.
March 3rd, 2008 at 10:28 am
Michelle,
I’m not sure how the loan situation is. Most of my loans were private, but I did have to get a co-sign on my second loan. So if your credit isn’t great (or in my case, I just had no credit history to speak of), you may be in trouble.
The way that the hours work there will basically entail 4 hours a day of class, and 4 hours a day of lab/’on task’ type training. At least that’s how it worked for the Digital Media and Recording Arts folks.
Classes are either at 5am, 9am, 1pm, 5pm, 9pm, or 1am. From what I recall, lectures could only be at 9am, 1pm or 5pm, but labs could be at any of those times. For us DM kids at least, I generally had lectures early and lab in the afternoon. Once I had a lab at 5am, and once at 9pm. But that’s about it! That could vary wildly for Film folks, as I know most recording people did have later labs — my brother went to Full Sail as well, and he was typically off during the day and had lectures and labs at night.
As far as the Speilberg comment goes, I have no idea. I haven’t heard about that. I hope I was able to answer some of your questions.
March 11th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
my best friend and i are very dedicated. we are trying to get into the industry and are constantly going to any and every event to meet artist, producers, agents.. he would like to go into the recording arts program. i would like to go into the music business program. i can not find any blogs or information from the student body or outer parties on the music business program. we both know that we’ll be moving to LA after and probably doing any job to stay a float. is full sail going help us acquire the tools? we both have degrees. we know you only get out what you put in. we danced the dance.. basically dan i am asking you is full sail gonna give us a good base so were not BSing our way through.
May 28th, 2008 at 1:50 am
Hi Daniel,
As everyone has mentioned… Thank you so much for your review. Though I’m enrolling in the online Masters program for Educational Media Design and Technology, I became a bit concerned with the bad reviews. But alas, looking back, they were all on RA students. Aside from the price tag, I’m really looking forward to their program. I actually was admitted to two other schools before even spotting FS, but their program just feels right - assuming it’s designed the way they say it is.
The online degree is new as of January, so it’s hard to find anything that reviews it, but we shall see. :)
June 19th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Hey, I’ve read one of your comments about UCF’s labbies at Fullsail. Are you saying that UCF’s Digital Media program is a bad program for someone to get into? I’m planning to enter their Visual Language program in hopes to gain alot of skills to help me get into the CGI-animation field. Please advise.
July 26th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Hi Daniel,
I would really like to thank you. Like Anthony, i really started having doubts and losing faith, but unlike Anthony, it’s only a week until i start. I’ve seen my fair share of bad reviews horribly debunked by me. Whisper Lake has several bad reviews, but I couldn’t be happier to have moved in. The Aloma Grill had horrible reviews, yet it added to my perfect day. I plan on pouring every ounce of my soul into my education, as does my roomy/girlfriend/peer and I’m glad to know that even though we will be in a very deep financial hole, there is hope where there is a will. Thank you very much for clarifying things in my greatest time of doubt.
August 9th, 2008 at 12:50 am
Hi Daniel, I would love to attend Full Sail and hope to start later on in the year; but I’ve read so many negative things about their degree programs about the lack of preparedness for the real world and so on. I noticed most of what I heard was about Recording Arts and nothing so much about Digital Arts and Design.
Have you known any international students who were successful with job placement and is earning a great salary now with an enjoyable job from Digital Arts and Design?
September 24th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
I am a first month student in the Masters of Media Education. I remember when FS actually came to my classroom and addressed my students. Naturally, I warned my students about the horrible reviews I had previously heard.
I started to do my own research, I discovered that they had a Masters Degree in the field that I was looking for. The more I learned, the more I saw FS shared the same vision as I did in regards to the need for media usage in the classroom.
One area I would like to touch on is the expectation of job placement. Many students go to school for the wrong reasons. Many go to get an education to get a job, regardless of whether they find it on their own or are helped. Education is about learning and discovering their passion for learning as opposed to learning what they need to know to become employed.
If students discover the joys of learning, then competency will come naturally which will lead to success and happiness. The problem I am seeing with most college students today is that many have dreams of making $100K/yr when they graduate. While it may happen for some, the odds are against it. I am sure FS doesn’t do as much to present the unrealistic odds but many students see only what they wish to see.
Maybe I am still too early in my program and haven’t experienced enough bad things to have a different outlook. Maybe that will change. But like anything in life, you get out what you put in. Those that are determined to succeed will always find a way provided they don’t give up and keep working at it.